My name is Ahmed Bahgat, an Egyptian like you, but I live in Australia, however I speak fluent Arabic, I am 43 years old, and have been reading your Facebook thread that you named SAYINGS OF MUHAMMAD (saw)
Well, what you have put in there in your oppening comment made me very furious and even angry, you are only promoting conjectures while Allah ordered us to avoid most conjectures even if most of it is a possible truth, how about you read verse 49:12 and ponder upon it, possibly you may learn something instead of wasting your time on the man made hadith of conjectures, let me show you the verse, possibly you may give heed:
49:12 يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اجْتَنِبُوا كَثِيرًا مِنَ الظَّنِّ إِنَّ بَعْضَ الظَّنِّ إِثْمٌ ۖ وَلَا تَجَسَّسُوا وَلَا يَغْتَبْ بَعْضُكُمْ بَعْضًا ۚ أَيُحِبُّ أَحَدُكُمْ أَنْ يَأْكُلَ لَحْمَ أَخِيهِ مَيْتًا فَكَرِهْتُمُوهُ ۚ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ تَوَّابٌ رَحِيمٌ
O you who believed! Avoid most of conjectures, for surely conjectures in some cases is a sin, and do not spy nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? But you abhor it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.
Now. Do you agree that YOU and all the Muslims for hundreds of years never heard from the prophet what you associate to him by prompting conjectures as if it was said by him in your ignorant thread about the sayings of the prophet which you named: SAYINGS OF MUHAMMAD (saw)?
Before you jump on your high horse that you call Sahih, you need to step down and look at yourself, many of the hadith you posted on Facebook are not from the two Sahih books of Bukhari and Muslim, so who are you fooling exactly dear sister?, well I am sure you have been fooling many after you fooled yourself, but what I am sure about that you will never be able to fool the likes of me who recognised the shirk and flaws of all sects of Islam.
Well, I will reply to your high horse that you call Sahih later on inshaallah, but let me just ask you darling, what do you mean by (saw) that you wrote after MUHAMMAD ?
Do you mean Salla Allah Alaihi Wa Sallam?
If yes, then how dare you shorten the name of Allah to the small letter a while writing the name MUHAMMAD complete and in capital letters?
It looks to me that Muhammad is dearer to you than Allah, would I be logically accurate if I claimed so about you?
See, you are nothing but like the majority of the confused Muslims who are ok to shorten the name Allah, or make it far smaller than the name Muhammad in the same sentence, have a look at this extract from one of the confused web sites:
مُحَمَّدٌ
See How the name of Muhammad is far bigger than the name of Allah, you can barely read the name of Allah, while the name Muhammad is big and obvious for all
Do you agree that those Arabic writers, and the English writers like you, who write the above in Arabic or write as what you wrote in English as a title for your thread on Facebook, love Mohammed more than they love Allah?
I think dear sister, it will be best for me to reply to what you put as your explanation to the divinity of the conjectures about Muhammed, see, whatever you do by jumping all day long on your high horse named Sahih, I will tell you that you never heard the prophet saying any of these allegations neither even your Sahih masters Bukhari and Muslim and I must be the one who is speaking sanely (logically speaking), therefore you are not neither they were certain that the prophet said so, yet all of you promote it as if, the prophet 100% said so, how sickening.
What will be your position if you find out on the JD that the prophet never said something that you promoted between the whole world, or at least 170 million humans on Facebook?
I can assure you that, if that will be the case, then the matter won?????????????????????¢??t be a mere red face and a saying of sorry, possibly you will try to blame it on Bukhari and the so many confused Muslims who followed path and misled and continue to mislead masses of Muslims, while their only motive is motovated by promoting the uncertain hadith that was alleged about Mohammed by thousands of people who never heard him or even saw him, in fact all of you are not obeying the prophet according to your own man made hadith that you promote on public sites like Facebook, as if what the confused Muslims have done and used over the years so far, is not enough, so the Internet will be a great mean of bringing others to follow your path, the path of SHIRK
Let me show you this hadith, and you tell me if you are in violation or not:
See how the prophet warned the people against talking way too much about him: اياكم و كثرة الحديث عني , Iyakum Wa Kuthrat Al Hadith Anny, i.e. Be warned of talking TOO MUCH about me
Please tell me, are you and the Muslims talking TOO MUCH about the prophet?
Look at your thread on Facebook, 4 pages of hadith after hadith, yet you will fail to prove conclusively that the prophet said any of them. Plain and simple.
Do you agree that there are many books about Mohammed that are bigger in volumes and numbers than the Quran?
If yes, then all of you must be in violation of your own hadith, your crime is simply, NOT OBEYING THE PROPHET according to you own hadith above
Your own man made hadith makes your belief questionable if we look at the following two hadiths:
See how clear your hadith above is: إنما هلك أهل الكتاب قبلكم أنهم أقبلوا على كتب علمائهم وتركوا كتاب ربهم
What other language you want to read the above message, possibly it becomes clearer more than what it is already, possibly you may give head?, How about English:
The people of the book were destroyed before you because they admired the books of their Ulamaa while abandoning the book of their Lord
Possibly you will reply that those man made books of hadith are also called Kitab Allah, well, I have to tell you that your possible falsehood must be perished with the will of Allah, and I will demonstrate that later on inshaallah.
Let me show you the second hadith which must make your belief and your actions questionable:
Do you agree that the actions of the majority of the Muslims including you are described above using the similar action of the Jews?
أن بني إسرائيل كتبوا كتابا فتبعوه وتركوا التوراة
You will never be able to deny that all these conflicting sects of Muslims are each following their own Ulamaa books, while rejecting the books of others, even within the same sect, are many conflicts and divisions, a simple example is the 4 Mazhabs within the same sunni sect
See, the moment the Muslims started to call themselves another name but a Muslim (only), is the same moment the Muslims started to be divided into sects, starting with the first sect, the sunnis,
Let me remind you with these 2 Quran verses
30:31 منيبين اليه واتقوه واقيموا الصلاة ولا تكونوا من المشركين
30:32 من الذين فرقوا دينهم وكانوا شيعا كل حزب بما لديهم فرحون
31- Turning to Him, and fear Him and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists.
32- Of those who divided their religion and became sects, every sect rejoicing in what they had with them
How clear: من الذين فرقوا دينهم وكانوا شيعا كل حزب بما لديهم فرحون ولا تكونوا من المشركين
See, if I will ask you, what sect you follow? 99.9% you will say, Sunni Muslim, and certainly you are rejoicing with what you have which belongs to your sunni sect only, you may also add to it which Mazhab you follow, see division within division
You need to pay a lot of attention to the above verse because your belief maybe charged under it, as being belief with shirk.
If that is not enough for you as I am sure how stubborn the sectarian Muslims have become, how about the following verse:
42:21 ام لهم شركاء شرعوا لهم من الدين ما لم ياذن به الله ولولا كلمة الفصل لقضي بينهم وان الظالمين لهم عذاب اليم
Or have they associates who have prescribed for them in the religion that Allah does not sanction? And were it not for the word of judgment, decision would have certainly been given between them; and surely the unjust shall have a painful punishment.
You cannot deny that you follow a lot of religious rules in your Islam, that Allah never sanctioned, like killing the adulterers, for example, why do not you educate me and tell me how Allah stated a rule to punish Al-Zani and Al-Zania, yet your associates tell us that Allah only mean the ones who are not married, while the ones who are married must be killed?
See, two laws, a law from Allah, and a law from man
Don?????????????????????¢??t you dare and come back telling me that Zani and Zania are those who are not married, because you speak Arabic and it will be a piece of cake for me to expose your ignorance if you dare. I will still use your own hadith against you.
How about shortening the prayer dear sister? Do you shorten your prayer if you travel more than 80 Km or whatever distance you may come up with?
Look, I can keep talking and talking and present to you a tougher argument than its former, but I might bore you that is if you are not bored already, I know reading something that attack the belief is tough, see, I have been through it before and still am, when the kafirs use your corrupt Sahih hadith to demolish the noble personality of Mohammed, now after knowing and comprehending what the hadith is all about, nothing but conjectures that most of it must be dismissed along with all these written books of hadith, I will stand high in front of the kafirs demolishing their crap by simply dismissing every hadith they bring, even if it is a good one. This is how I show them that the hadith means nothing to me because it will always be doubtful, you in the other hand will never be able to do that, while seeing you pondering upon the hadith and while caring less about the Quran, see in your 4 pages of promoting Mohammed on Facebook, you only posted like 3 or 4 Quran verses to serve your low desires of convincing others to follow your mass of following such man made books of hadith as being divine, as if being in a mass, makes what the mass believe in right. Far from the truth, look at the masses of confused Christians and such assumption should be demolished.
Let me now go through some Arabic sentences from what you have alleged on Facebook and see if you have a valid point:
You said:
والصلاة والسلام على سيدنا محمد بن عبد الله، الذي أرسله الله تعالى رحمة للناس،
You stated above that Muhammed was sent to the people as mercy, however we have been taught that Muhammed was sent to Al-Aalameen, which should means the Worlds, i.e. any thing that is created
Which stand are you going for?
1) The worlds (i.e. all creatures)
2) The people
Now, if you stand for what you said, which is the people, this must raise another question:
Which people you mean?
1) All the people before and after Mohammed
2) Only the people who received or inherited the message from Mohammed
وكان فضل الله عليه عظيما، وعلى آله وصحبه ومن تبعهم بإحسان إلى يوم الدين
This must raise the question, till when the Muslims followed the prophet with Ihsaan?
See, soon after the prophet death, his wife Aysha, and many members of the prophet family fought together and killed each other:
The Battle of Bassorah, Battle of the Camel, or Battle of Jamal was a battle that took place at Basrah, Iraq, in year 656 between forces allied to Ali Ibn Abi Talib (Mohammed?????????????????????¢??s cousin and son-in-law, Rightly Guided Caliph and Commander of the Faithful) and forces allied to Aysha (widow of Muhammad, and called the Mother of the Faithful) who wanted justice on the perpetrators of the assassination of the previous caliph Uthman. At least 5000 Muslims were killed by Muslims.
In such battle, the family of the prophets and his followers were fighting and killing each other, how about now? Do you agree that the Sunni and Shia sects are fighting and killing each other?
It seems that was what the prophet wanted for us according to you own Sahih Hadith, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
As you can read above, Bukhari is telling us that when verse 6:65 was revealed in bits, Mohammed sought refuge in Allah, so when the first sentecne was revealed:
قل هو القادر علي ان يبعث عليكم عذابا من فوقكم
i.e. Allah is He Who is able to send upon you torture from above you
The prophet quickly said:
I seek refuge in Your Face (the face of Allah)
And when the next sentecne in the verse was revelaed:
او من تحت ارجلكم
I.e. Or (send a torture upon you) from under you feet
The prophet quickly said again:
I seek refuge in Your Face (the Face of Allah)
Then when the next sentece was revealed:
او يلبسكم شيعا ويذيق بعضكم باس بعض
I.e. Or confuse you into sects and make some of you taste the power of others
So Mohammed quickly said:
Those two are bearable and easier
So according to your man made Sahih hadith, Mohammed was ok that Allah confuses us into sects and makes some of us taste the power of others
Do you think that the battle of Al-Jamal between Aysha and Ali, was a perfect example of such perfect description in the Quran?
Do you think that what is happening now days to the Ummah, is described in such verse?
What is hard to understand that the prophet did not seek refuge in Allah for such two horrible punishments that will only cause further and further divisions and confusion, simply it should lead to the failure of the religion with its own followers, do you agree?
So my question stands, till when the Muslims were following the prophet with Ihsaan?
You said next:
فإن السنة هي المصدر التشريعي الثاني
i.e. The Sunnah is the second source of Sharia
Why adding the sunnah explicitly to the only source of Sharia, why not anything that makes sense and is compatible with the Quran is the only source of sharia along with the Quran ?
Why don?????????????????????¢??t you show me one incident in the Quran where Allah commanded us to follow the Quran and what you call Sunnah?
Again, do not dare and bring the verses about obeying Allah and His messenger, because Mohammed was not unique in such aspect of obeying, all messengers sent SHOULD BE OBEYED, let?????????????????????¢??s see this Quran verse:
4:64 وما ارسلنا من رسول الا ليطاع باذن الله
And We did not of any messenger except that he is obeyed with the permission of Allah
See, Mohammed was no exception, now let me ask you, if I believe in the Quran and do my best to follow it, and pray 5 times a day, and fast Ramadan, and pay Zakah, and will do Hajj if I can
Will I be considered a Muslim, or I must follow what you call sunnah which you extract from your man made books of hadith, to be called a Muslim?
Now, back to what you said above that the Sunnah the second source of the Sharia, but do you really care about the first Source of Sharia?, Do you ponder upon the Quran as Allah commanded you to do? How long you spend pondering upon the Quran in comparison to the time you spend pondering upon the man made hadith?
If you are insisting on following such man made books of hadith, then let me ask you, if you are married to a polygamous man, i.e. a man who is married to four wives, will you allow your husband to sleep with you straight after he slept with the other 3 wives and without having a bath in between the wives? As an example of the prophet that was alleged by Bukhari? Let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
See the non sense above by your master Bukhari: إذا جامع ثم عاد ومن دار على نسائه في غسل واحد
How come the above crap that only defames the prophet is possible?
Will you allow you polygynous husband to do the same, taking the prophet as an example, as alleged by Bukhari and his pals?
Will you accept the above crap by Bukhari as being the Sunnah that you are talking about?
Well, another master of yours, Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, who was a good friend of Bukhari, contradicted the above allegation, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
How clear the contradiction: فجعل يغتسل عند هذه وعند هذه فقيل يا رسول الله لو جعلته غسلا واحدا قال هذا أزكى
وأطيب وأطهر
Who should you believe in your Sunnah, Bukhari or Ahmed Ibn Hanbal?
Why you think we should know such intimate descriptions about the prophet and his wives?
It seems that you really do not know what your man made books of hadith have in it, you have been programmed to parrot some allegations for the sake of only making others to ponder about your man made books of hadith, while you never indulge yourself in promoting the Quran, surely you love the prophet more than Allah, and that is evident in your comment trying hard to promote what you call sunnah on a public web site that has millions of members, let me reply to what you said next:
تعرفنا حكم الله سبحانه وتعالى في كل كبير وصغير ،
So you are saying that your books of hadith are the ones that should make us know the ruling of Allah in every thing, small or huge.
Like what exactly, like sleeping with our multiple wives one after the other in an hour of a day or an hour of a night without having a bath in between?
Or like seeking from Allah to curse others while we are praying as Bukhari alleged that the prophet did?
Or killing the apostates?
Or killing the adulterers?
Or leaning on the legs of our wives when they have the period and while we read the Quran?
Or we marry children at 6 years old as Bukhari lied to us? See, promoting a lie, is considered to be committing a the same lie, that is what you own hadith say.
Why do not you tell everyone if you believe what Bukhari promoted about the prophet that he married Aysha when she was 6 years old?
If Bukhari had a single cell of brain, he should have realized that such hadith is nothing but a lie, the facts from the books of man made sirah is clear as light:
1) Asmaa Bin Abi Bakr died on year 73 H at the age of 100
2) Aysha was 10 years younger that Asmaa
3) Mohammed married Aysha 2 years before Hijrah
4) Asmaa was 25 years old, 2 years before Hijrah
5) Because Aysha who was 10 years younger than Asmaa, she must have been15 years old, two years before Hijrah
6) i.e. Aysha was 15 years old when Mohammed married her
See, Bukhari did not have a single cell of brain, likewise all his followers and admirers.
Back to your allegations on Facebook, you kept praising the Sunnah with absolutely no evidences provided, rather your wishful thinking, however your realized that if you link it to Allah, then it will be of a better chance that others follow you through, so you said:
مستوحى عن الله تعالى
i.e. you said, the Sunnah is revealed by Allah
Well, I will agree with you that only in matters that are related to the Quran, like how we pray, or how we do Hajj
But certainly shunning a blind man preferring the rich over him while he was seeking guidance can not be from Allah
Lkwise, taking ransom for the prisoners of wars so we raise in the land can not be from Allah
And certainly not prohibiting what Allah has made lawful for us, like honey for example, is not from Allah
See. What I mentioned above cannot be a revelation by Allah, do you agree on that?
If you do, then Mohammed was not at all times under revelation, in fact when he prohibited the honey on himself, it was not only according to his own desires, rather to please the desires of one of his wives as well.
I really have to ask you to stop saying things against Allah which you have no knowledge, certainly you have no knowledge that what you select as being sunnah, was a revelation from Allah, and most certainly you have no knowledge or proof that Mohammed said any hadith in all hadith books.
You are only following conjectures (Zunn) and I I can assure that conjectures won?????????????????????¢??t avail a thing from the truth.
Then you refereed to what you call Sunnah as :
السنة المطهرة
I.e. the Purified Sunnah
Please tell me, what Tahara (purification) is exactly to be found in the following acts:
1) Sleeping with all the wives one after the other in an hour of a day or an hour of a night without having a bath in between
2) Reading the Quran while leaning on a wife who has her period.
3) Drinking Camel urine
Then you stated two Quran verses, the first verse in which Allah is telling Mohammed to inform the people with what He sent down to him, which certainly mean the Quran or anything that is qualified by the Quran, and the second verse 16:64 (you put the link wrong, you stated it verse 44), which I totally agree with you regarding such verse, that the prophet used the Quran to explain to us what Allah sent down to us, see the verse:
16:64 وما انزلنا عليك الكتاب الا لتبين لهم الذي اختلفوا فيه
We did not send down the book upon you except that you explain to the people that in which that have differed
Therefore Mohammed was using the Quran to explain to the people anything religious.
Then you alleged the following:
فالسنة المطهرة تأكيد لما بين كتاب الله من أحكام،
i.e. The purified Sunnah is a confirmation to the laws of Allah
That is a clear cut lie, I have to say, for example:
1) Allah said to punish the adulterers with a different punishment to what your man made books alleged
2) Allah never ordained to kill those who leave Islam while your man made books command to kill them
3) Allah decreed that we should only shorten the prayer if we go to a land whose people will be hostile to us and cause Fitnah if they see us praying, while your man made books of sunnah tell us something else, that we should shorten the prayer if we travel more than 80 Km or about
The above three evidences are compeling to expose your lie that the alleged Sunnah by Bukhari confirm the Laws of Allah, rather IT CLEARLY CONTRADICT THE LAWS OF ALLAH, you can fool yourself and others but you will never be able to fool those who stick and ponder upon the words of Allah in His Quran.
Then you said about the Sunnah:
أو تشريع لما سكت عنه القرآن،
I.e. The Sunnah is the source of law what the Quran did not talk about
Well, you are totally confused in here, because if we look at the things that the Quran never mentioned then we have zillions of things, however do we really need to know those things to believe in Allah?
Well, for something like Salat, I agree, at least the Salat is ordained by Allah and not by Mohammed, at least the Salat is mentioned hundreds of times in the Quran
Unlike the things you uphold which was never mentioned in the Quran or something to the contrary was mentioned, like marrying children or like killing the apostates (Murtadeen)
Again, what you should follow from what you call Sunnah, or what you hear from anyone for that matter, should only be qualified by the Quran if it is a matter that relates to the religion someway or another.
Then you brought in 2 Quran verse, which should expose your ignorance with the Quran, exactly as the prophet said in the Quran that his people has abandoned the Quran, you are a perfect example of such people of Mohammed, let me bring what you said first:
فهو المكلف الأول: {وأنا أول المسلمين} /الأنعام: 163
i.e. the Quran says that Mohammed said that he is the first of the Muslims, however it seems that you misunderstand the above verse, because logically speaking and according to the Quran, Mohammed was not the first Muslims, rather many before him were Muslims, even before he was born, like Ibrahim, Ismael, Isa and even Isa's disciples
Therefore the message of verse 6:163, must mean something else, which can be understood with ease, that Mohammed was the first Muslim to adhere to the Quran, the others before him were also Muslims but they had different Minhag and Sharia according to the scriptures sent to them
The second verse you brought in is your obvious blunder, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
{وأنا أول المؤمنين} /الأعراف: 143
I.e. you are alleging that verse 7:143 is stating that Mohammed said that he was the first of the believers, how massive is you Quran ignorance? Well, 7:143 is not talking about Mohammed, rather it is talking about Musa, let me bring the whole verse in here:
7:143 ولما جاء موسي لميقاتنا وكلمه ربه قال رب ارني انظر اليك قال لن تراني ولكن انظر الي الجبل فان استقر مكانه فسوف تراني فلما تجلي ربه للجبل جعله دكا وخر موسي صعقا فلما افاق قال سبحانك تبت اليك وانا اول المؤمنين
And when Musa came to Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he (Musa) said: My Lord! Show me Yourself so that I may look upon You. He (Allah) said: You can not see Me but look at the mountain, if it remains stable in its place then you will see Me; but when his Lord appeared to the mountain He made it crumble and Musa fell down unconscious; then when he recovered, he (Musa) said: Glory is to You, I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers.
See, your ignorance is exposed; Mohammed has nothing to do with what is said in the above verse, it was Musa who said that he was the first of the believers
Well, I do understand how you blundered; it is a combination of the followings:
1) You clear ignorance with the Quran
2) Your low desires of raising Mohammed and making him different to all other prophets and messengers sent, this is called (Idol worshipping btw)
For point # 1, well, again, the Quran does not mean it in the context of who is being the first, rather who is being the first to what was specifically sent to them, of course the first of believers may not be even a human, rather a jinn, this is because they lived before us and they are requested to believe like us, however if you want to talk humans only, then logically speaking Adam was the first of believers, however and as I said, Adam was the first of believers to what was sent to him, let?????????????????????¢??s look at the following example from the Quran:
26:51 انا نطمع ان يغفر لنا ربنا خطايانا ان كنا اول المؤمنين
Surely we hope that our Lord will forgive us our wrongs because we are the first of the believers.
See, the magicians as a group were the first to believe in Musa, i.e. the first to believe after they witnessed the signs of Allah, which were sent to them as well through Musa.
For point # 2, well, it is clear that you are motivated as such, as all hadith worshippers are and have been, you always want to talk about Mohammed and never care about all other prophets, despite that the Quran talked far more about Musa than Mohammed, which something that might have upset you or something, so you went for the man made books of hadith to only read about Mohammed, your clear problem is this, Allah commanded us at least 3 times in the Quran NOT TO MAKE ANY DISTINCTION between any of the prophets, let me show you one example of those verses:
3:84 قل امنا بالله وما انزل علينا وما انزل على ابراهيم واسماعيل واسحق ويعقوب والاسباط وما اوتي موسى وعيسى والنبيون من ربهم لا نفرق بين احد منهم ونحن له مسلمون
Say: We have believed in Allah and in what has been sent down on us, and what was sent down on Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him we are submitters.
How clear as stated in the above 100% Sahih hadith of Mohammed: والنبيون من ربهم لا نفرق بين احد منهم قل
Now, look in the mirror while being honest, and see for yourself that you indeed make distinction between Mohammed and all other prophets, that was obvious from verse 7:143 that is clearly talking about Musa, but somehow you wanted it to be talking about Mohammed
Your bias actions regarding Mohammed will be evident in what you said next while bringing a Quran verse to support your low desires, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look at the next evidence that you brought in from the Quran:
{لقد كان لكم في رسول الله أسوة حسنة} /الأحزاب: 21
I.e. There is for you in the messenger of Allah a good example
But the Quran did not say the above about Mohammed explicitly, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
60:4 قد كانت لكم اسوة حسنة في ابراهيم والذين معه اذ قالوا لقومهم انا براؤا منكم ومما تعبدون من دون الله كفرنا بكم وبدا بيننا وبينكم العدواة والبغضاء ابدا حتي تؤمنوا بالله وحده الا قول ابراهيم لابيه لاستغفرن لك وما املك لك من الله من شئ ربنا عليك توكلنا واليك انبنا واليك المصير
60:6 لقد كان لكم فيهم اسوة حسنة لمن كان يرجو الله واليوم الاخر ومن يتول فان الله هو الغني الحميد
4: There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship other than Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone: But not when Abraham said to his father: I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah. (They prayed): Our Lord! in You do we trust, and to You do we turn in repentance: to You is (our) Final Goal.
6: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.
How clear, لقد كان لكم فيهم اسوة حسنة لمن كان يرجو الله واليوم الاخر قد كانت لكم اسوة حسنة في ابراهيم والذين معه
Now I wonder, why do you ignore the above verses which tells us to take Ibrahim and those who believed with him as Iswah Hasanah?
Possibly you are bias to your idol worshipping of Mohammed?
Well, don?????????????????????¢??t you know that Mohammed himself took Ibrahim as Iswah Hasanah, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
16:123 ثم اوحينا اليك ان اتبع ملة ابراهيم حنيفا وما كان من المشركين
Then We revealed to you to follow the religion of Ibrahim, the upright one, and he was not among the polytheists.
See how Allah always tells us about Ibrahim that: وما كان من المشركين
Did Mohammed obeyed Allah as commanded above?, let?????????????????????¢??s see in another 100% Sahih hadith of Mohammed:
6:161 قل انني هداني ربي الي صراط مستقيم دينا قيما ملة ابراهيم حنيفا وما كان من المشركين
Say: Indeed my Lord has guided me to a straight path; a valuable religion, the faith of Ibrahim the upright, and he was not of the polytheists.
Very clear in the above Sahih hadith of Mohammed: قل انني هداني ربي الي صراط مستقيم دينا قيما ملة ابراهيم حنيفا وما كان من المشركين
See how Allah again is telling us about Ibrahim that: وما كان من المشركين
In fact, in another Sahih hadith of Mohammed, we read that he was commanding the people to follow the straight path of Ibrahim, let?????????????????????¢??s read:
3:95 قل صدق الله فاتبعوا مله ابراهيم حنيفا وما كان من المشركين
Say: Allah has spoken the truth, therefore follow the religion of Ibrahim, the upright; and he was not one of the polytheists.
In fact, Allah told us that the best thing to do is to believe in Allah and follow the religion of Ibrahim:
4:125 ومن احسن دينا ممن اسلم وجهه لله وهو محسن واتبع ملة ابراهيم حنيفا واتخذ الله ابراهيم خليلا
And who has a better religion than the one who submitted his face to Allah and while he is doer of good and followed the religion of Ibrahim, the upright, and Allah took Ibrahim as a friend.
And that is exactly what I am doing, I am taking prophet Ibrahim as an excellent examples to fight the heads of shirk who invaded my religion, being a father, a mother, a brother or a stranger, it makes no difference to me, they all show clear signs of Shirk and Idol worshipping
Now I am asking you why you are not taking prophet Ibrahim as Iswah Hassnah as Allah commanded you?
Don?????????????????????¢??t you know that the noble prophet Ibrahim was described by your man made books of hadith as a liar?
Then you listed two verses that always used by those who idol worship Mohammed:
{وما ينطق عن الهوى إن هو إلا وحي يوحى} /النجم: 3 - 4
Of course the prophet never talked of his desires concerning the Quran or anything related to the Quran, on the other hand the Quran confirmed to us that the prophet indeed talked and acted at least 3 times according to his own desires and faulted and was exposed by Allah and was corrected by Allah, certainly Mohammed could have never been under revelation in those three incidents at least. Then you posted another Quran verse about obeying Mohammed, but again, all prophets and messengers should be obeyed, Mohammed was not an exception, in fact Mohammed was obeying Ibrahim, and I am obeying Mohammed and Ibrahim by obeying the Quran he delivered as well what I know about Ibrahim from the Quran.
In your last paragraph, you tried to sum your allegation with a few clear cut lies:, this is what you said:
لهذا كله كانت السنة المطهرة، في مجمل أحكامها وتشريعاتها - من حيث وحوب العمل بها ?????????????????????¢??
بمنزلة كتاب الله تعالى
Simply what you are saying that: from all the evidences presented by you, the purified sunnah in all its laws and rulings MUST be adhered to as being in the same position as the book of Allah
Well, sure, but only if it does not violate or contradict the book of Allah, as well it must be a talk about something that was mentioned in the book of Allah, not something that has absolutely nothing to do with His religion, like the lie of allegation that the prophet married Aysha when she was 6 years
Let me ask ya, will you allow your 6 years old daughter to marry a 50 years old man?
Or something that defame the prophet, like sleeping with his 9 or 11 wives one after the other in an hour of a day or an hour of a night and without having a bath in b between, or like the prophet reading the Quran while touching Aysha when she has the period, or like the prophet drinking wine after making sure that it was reserved properly, or like the prophet asking Allah to curse other people while he was praying, the list of non sense and contradictions is huge
Then you said about the Sunnah (the books of hadith):
فما ثبت فيها فهو ثابت بوحي من الله سبحانه، وأمر منه وتكليف:
i.e., whatever was proven from it must be a revelation from Allah and a command from Him to adhere to it
Well, how then you confirm it?, not by using the non sense man invention that is called the science of Jarh and Ta3deel, or the other invention called the science of Rijal, or the other non sense called the Science of Isnad
Ironically all the above invented science have absolutely nothing to do with science, rather every thing to do with conjectures and Ightiab
What you said above is yet another lie against Allah, something that Allah never said, don?????????????????????¢??t you know that saying things against Allah is haram in the Quran, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look in yet again another 100% Sahih hadith of Mohammed:
7:33 قل انما حرم ربي الفواحش ما ظهر منها وما بطن والاثم والبغي بغير الحق وان تشركوا بالله ما لم ينزل به سلطانا وان تقولوا علي الله ما لا تعلمون
Say: My Lord has only prohibited indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed, and sin and rebellion without justice, and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority, and that you say against Allah what you do not know:
See how clear: ان تقولوا علي الله ما لا تعلمون قل انما حرم ربي
Certainly saying the allegation recorded by Bukhari and his likes as being divine from Allah, is saying things against Allah, the problem you have darling, that if you want to say things about Allah then you have to be 100% certain, 99% cannot be acceptable, and I can assure you that all your man made hadith can never reach 100% certainty, therefore anything in it about Allah must be dismissed, like changing His words many times making the Salat 5 a day from 50 a day, and it suppose to be that Allah never put a burden on any human except what he/she can bear, your hadith is showing us that Musa knew what Allah and Muhammed did not know, that the Ummah will not be able to handle 50 Salat a day, yet instead of going from 50 to 5 at once, the game kept going backward and forward between Musa, Mohammed and Allah, with total disrespect to Allah might and power, the matter of the fact remains intact, that there is no change to Allah words as stated by Allah so many times in the Quran, yet we see Musa is making Allah change His words through Mohammed many times, a clear cut non sense of hadith that must be dismissed.
See, all of you who lack the Quran knowledge are indulged all your life in saying things about Allah which you have no proof neither any authority, despite that 7:33 clearly tells us that it is Haram, in fact if you really understand Allah message then you should know that Iblis will always command us to say things against Allah which we have no knowledge or proof, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look :
2:168 يا ايها الناس كلوا مما في الارض حلالا طيبا ولا تتبعوا خطوات الشيطان انه لكم عدو مبين
2:169 انما يامركم بالسوء والفحشاء وان تقولوا على الله ما لا تعلمون
168: O people! Eat the lawful and good things out of what is in the earth, and do not follow the footsteps of the shaitan; indeed to you, he is a clear enemy.
169: He only commands you with evil and indecency, and that you may say against Allah what you do not know.
See what Iblis commands us in addition to indecencies and evil:
ان تقولوا على الله ما لا تعلمون انما يامركم ولا تتبعوا خطوات الشيطان انه لكم عدو مبين
Certainly, you and the many like you, are doing just that, i.e. all of you hadith worshippers have submitted to Iblis, and consequently all of you became my enemy because I have taken Iblis as an obvious enemy, and I will continue to fight all of you viciously until one of us gives way to what suppose to be the straight path of Allah and the only truth which can only be found in His Quran. Haven?????????????????????¢??t you read this verse or what:
4:82 افلا يتدبرون القران ولو كان من عند غير الله لوجدوا فيه اختلافا كثيرا
Do they not ponder upon the Quran? And if it had been from anyone other than Allah, they would have found in it many discrepancy.
See, verse 4:82 is talking about the Quran, not about you man made books of hadith that you want to put them in the same level as the Book of Allah, promoting the lie of Bukhari that the Sunnah is also called the book of Allah
Now let me ask ya, is the Sunnah is also called Quran?
Well, it can?????????????????????¢??t be, therefore 4:82 in effect is telling us that your man made books of sunnah must be full of discrepancies, simply because it is not the Quran that Allah has sent, I hope that Allah gives you the power to defeat Iblis and the shirk Iblis made you to inherit.
Then finally you stated a verse from the Quran as a support of your ending statement as follow:
{وما آتاكم الرسول فخذوه وما نهاكم عنه فانتهوا} /الحشر: 7/.
وعليه فالسنة حجة على المسلمين
You brought in part of verse 59:7 to support your allegation that the Sunnah must be Hujjah (a must) upon the Muslims, see you are doing the typical lame excuse by the likes of you, bringing part of a verse to prove your wishful thiking and idol worshipping tendencay to idol worship Mohammed through whatever some people alleged about him, let me bring the verse in here to expose your Quran ignorance again and again:
59:7 ما افاء الله علي رسوله من اهل القري فلله وللرسول ولذي القربي واليتامي والمساكين وابن السبيل كي لا يكون دولة بين الاغنياء منكم وما اتاكم الرسول فخذوه وما نهاكم عنه فانتهوا واتقوا الله ان الله شديد العقاب
Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is severe in retribution.
> Most hadith worshippers use the above verse trying hard to validate their lies, in the process they only continue to spew more lies, they are telling us that the verse above is about accepting those books of Sunnah, while the verse above is very clear that it was not about that, even by just looking at the verse with no Tafsir, we can sense that it is not about the Sunnah, rather a specific incident that happened during the time of Mohammed, see: Whatever Allah has restored to His Messenger from the people of the towns, it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, simply the verse was revealed after the prophet and the believers won a battle against the kafirs, they ended up with a lot of kafirs possessions, the prophet needed to divide it between the believers, so Allah is saying that all what they took after winning the war should be divided between: it is for Allah and for the Messenger, and for the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer, Allah even explained why, see: so that it may not be a thing taken by turns among the rich of you, simply it means that to prevent some already rich people of getting richer, imagine what the prophet faced at the time while dividing such booties, there is no doubt that the people conflicted between each other, sort of some were not happy from what the prophet gave them and others were not happy because the prophet did not give them from what they desired, so Allah is telling them regarding the division of war booties: and whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it, and from whatever he forbids you, keep back, please read the Tafsir to confirm what I just said, now with people like mister Al Amry, they remove such sentence from the whole verse and present it on its own, so it becomes general and not specific to what the verse is aimed at, on the other hand I actually agree that whatever the Messenger gives you (concerning laws), accept it, and whatever he forbids you, keep back.
Now, the hadith in Bukhari and many other books confirm the message of 59:7, the following hadith has given us an example of the prophet dividing a war booty after the battle of Khaiber, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
Clear from the above Bukhari hadith, that Ibn Saeed Ibn Alaas was an ex kafir who killed a Muslim (Ibn Qawqal) before his Islam, when the prophet was dividing the booty after the victory of Khaiber, Abu Hurairah came to the prophet seeking a share (that should say a lot about his personality), one of the other Muslims (Ibn Saeed Ibn Alaas) objected, so Abu Hurairah quickly attacked him by telling the prophet not to give such man any share because he was the killer of Ibn Qawqal, so Ibn Saeed Ibn Alaas replied back by attacking Abu Hurairah.
The objective of the above hearsay hadith is simply to confirm that those ex Kafirs who committed crimes against Islam before their Islam, are forgiven after their Islam, and they should share the war booty with other Muslims, despite that the hadith ended with a confusing fact that they did not know if the prophet gave him a share or not, in effect the hadith is really useless because it did not tell us what we should do with the ex kafirs regarding the division of war booty.
To be honest sister, I believe the books of man made hadith are going to be a Hujjah against most Muslims, a clear Hujjah against their shirk and idol worshipping.
There will be no way that rejecting all the allegations that defame Allah, Mohammed and even all the prophets maybe a Hujjah against them, rather a Hujjah supporting their actions of rejecting all such non sense and lies _________________ http://free-islam.com
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Fri 10 Jul, 2009 4:27 pm; edited 3 times in total
Posted:
Tue 10 Mar, 2009 11:34 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
And it will be posted on www.faithfreedom.org site http://www.forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1373 , an anti Islam web site that uses the hadith spewed by the Muslims like you to attack Allah, the prophet, Islam, the Muslims and the Quran. Just to show them that the time of the people like you is near inshaallah
I honestly believe that I proved my case regarding my allegation that you and the likes of you including many of the dearest of my family members, are Mushrikoon, however if you really think that I am a Kafir, do not be shy of telling me, I won?????????????????????¢??t be offended, please present your case but you need to use the Quran ONLY against me, as I used the Hadith against you.
Any hadith that you will bring to prove your allegation regarding the hadith will be dismissed until you reply to all the a hadith I presented, you also need to reply to every Quran verse that I presented as I replied to every Quran verse you presented
One thing I might have to say, sorry for my aggression, but again, I consider myself in a war and I am fighting the most dangerous enemy ever, the enemy within
Salam and may Allah guidance be upon those who deserve to be guided _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Tue 10 Mar, 2009 11:50 pm
BMZ Moderator
Status: Age: 76 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 614
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
And it will be posted on www.faithfreedom.org site http://www.forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1373 , an anti Islam web site that uses the hadith spewed by the Muslims like you to attack Allah, the prophet, Islam, the Muslims and the Quran. Just to show them that the time of the people like you is near inshaallah
I honestly believe that I proved my case regarding my allegation that you and the likes of you including many of the dearest of my family members, are Mushrikoon, however if you really think that I am a Kafir, do not be shy of telling me, I won?????????????????????¢??t be offended, please present your case but you need to use the Quran ONLY against me, as I used the Hadith against you.
Any hadith that you will bring to prove your allegation regarding the hadith will be dismissed until you reply to all the a hadith I presented, you also need to reply to every Quran verse that I presented as I replied to every Quran verse you presented
One thing I might have to say, sorry for my aggression, but again, I consider myself in a war and I am fighting the most dangerous enemy ever, the enemy within
Salam and may Allah guidance be upon those who deserve to be guided
Well said, Ahmed
The problem with Muslims is that they do not study and understand Qur'aan. They spend more time on Hadith collections, which are 95% full of junk and stuff, narrated by characters unknown.
Salaams
Baig
Posted:
Wed 11 Mar, 2009 3:43 pm
parvez_mushtaq Pawn
Status: Age: 50 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 36
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
And it will be posted on www.faithfreedom.org site http://www.forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1373 , an anti Islam web site that uses the hadith spewed by the Muslims like you to attack Allah, the prophet, Islam, the Muslims and the Quran. Just to show them that the time of the people like you is near inshaallah
I honestly believe that I proved my case regarding my allegation that you and the likes of you including many of the dearest of my family members, are Mushrikoon, however if you really think that I am a Kafir, do not be shy of telling me, I won?????????????????????¢??t be offended, please present your case but you need to use the Quran ONLY against me, as I used the Hadith against you.
Any hadith that you will bring to prove your allegation regarding the hadith will be dismissed until you reply to all the a hadith I presented, you also need to reply to every Quran verse that I presented as I replied to every Quran verse you presented
One thing I might have to say, sorry for my aggression, but again, I consider myself in a war and I am fighting the most dangerous enemy ever, the enemy within
Salam and may Allah guidance be upon those who deserve to be guided
salam
there is a famous saying in urdu
baail ka samna kutba
meaning is "a holy sermon in front of a buffalo
why is am saying this is i quickly scanned 7,8 pages of ff in the thread started by you
they simply mocked your postings
i think this is to be expected there
i think you have given a correct thing to wrong people
it is like looking for a black goat in a dark night which is not there
if i were you , then i straight a way challenged Shiekh Salim Al-Amry in his paltalk session in
http://www.ibraheemscreed.net/index.php
or posted in
http://forums.alkauthar.org/showthread.php?t=1967
and challenged yasir qadhi
but the problem is i don't have the amazing knowledge as you have
lol
dear ahmed , we need people like you to debate with Muslim scholars
pl don't waste yourself
with regards
Mushtaq
Posted:
Tue 17 Mar, 2009 8:06 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
parvez_mushtaq wrote:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
And it will be posted on www.faithfreedom.org site http://www.forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1373 , an anti Islam web site that uses the hadith spewed by the Muslims like you to attack Allah, the prophet, Islam, the Muslims and the Quran. Just to show them that the time of the people like you is near inshaallah
I honestly believe that I proved my case regarding my allegation that you and the likes of you including many of the dearest of my family members, are Mushrikoon, however if you really think that I am a Kafir, do not be shy of telling me, I won?????????????????????¢??t be offended, please present your case but you need to use the Quran ONLY against me, as I used the Hadith against you.
Any hadith that you will bring to prove your allegation regarding the hadith will be dismissed until you reply to all the a hadith I presented, you also need to reply to every Quran verse that I presented as I replied to every Quran verse you presented
One thing I might have to say, sorry for my aggression, but again, I consider myself in a war and I am fighting the most dangerous enemy ever, the enemy within
Salam and may Allah guidance be upon those who deserve to be guided
salam
there is a famous saying in urdu
baail ka samna kutba
meaning is "a holy sermon in front of a buffalo
why is am saying this is i quickly scanned 7,8 pages of ff in the thread started by you
they simply mocked your postings
i think this is to be expected there
i think you have given a correct thing to wrong people
it is like looking for a black goat in a dark night which is not there
if i were you , then i straight a way challenged Shiekh Salim Al-Amry in his paltalk session in
http://www.ibraheemscreed.net/index.php
or posted in
http://forums.alkauthar.org/showthread.php?t=1967
and challenged yasir qadhi
but the problem is i don't have the amazing knowledge as you have
lol
dear ahmed , we need people like you to debate with Muslim scholars
pl don't waste yourself
with regards
Mushtaq
Salam mate
The knowledge is there in the Quran and their man made books of hadith, possibly my Arabic fluency will make me have a good chance with such people
I have been on Paltalk some time ago and they just do not give you a chance to talk, they cut you off without notcie, very cheap indeed
I would prefer debating on a forum where everuyone will have a chance to digest and reply properly
I only use FFI for exposure btw, I know that a lot of Muslims read it, I am actually a bit sick of FFI currently and I am hardly contributing in there, I need to concentrate on the Quran translation as there is still a lot of work to do
However if you can contact those shiekh and organise a debate, I won't let you down, but we must have some rules with such people
BTW, I am going through Bukhari hadith, one after the other, in the last 2 days I finished the first 150 hadith and not to my surprise I collected a lot of crap pending my walkthrough
What I believe that those people do not want to listen, like the christaisn exactly, try to tell them that they have been flawed, they won't believe you
do you think that they are open or close minded Muslims?
I have a feeling that they are the second and in that case I believe that any comment that I will post will be deleted and even I may gt banned
what is your advise?
Cheers
salam
i don't about yasir qadhi but Tawfique Chowdhury seems to be a balanced minded man
i had attended his workshop regarding THE MARK OF A JURIST in chennai
he is good
even i never contributed any thing in that forum
but that forum seems to ok for me
with regards
Mushtaq
Posted:
Thu 19 Mar, 2009 3:30 pm
parvez_mushtaq Pawn
Status: Age: 50 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 36
Post subject:
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Salam again brother Perfez
I had a look at the first link and could not find any forums nor any place to join, however I left this feedback message for them:
Salam brothers and sisters
I appluade your cause of uniting the Muslims back after hundreds of years of division, conflicts and confusion, however with my respect, I do not think that you are doing a good job, this is obvious from your tendency to talk hadith more than talking Quran.
For the sake of the Ummah, I challnege Shieks Al Amry on a live debate any where you wish, in that debate inshaalalh I will prove to all (Muslims, Mushrik and Kafirs) that these books of hadith should have never been written.
Here is a sample of how I will refute those self made shiekhs :
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam brother Perfez
I watched one of Tawfiq videos,
Mate, he started his video with the same crap like Shiekh Amry
He called Mohammed, Ashraf Aa-Anbia, i.e. the most honourable prophet, which can not be the case from the believers perspective
Secondly, he refrerred to the guidance, as the guidance of Mohammed, while as far as I believe, there is only one guidance, which is the guidance of Allah.
I cannot stand such people man, I do not think their style is appealing to many people either.
I do not know man, I think I better stick to my web site, and for those who want to refute me, are welcome to come and do it in here, at least I am not going to sensor them.
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Read above first ^^
In fact, Allah told us that the best thing to do is to believe in Allah and follow the religion of Ibrahim:
And who has a better religion than the one who submitted his face to Allah and while he is doer of good and followed the religion of Ibrahim, the upright, and Allah took Ibrahim as a friend. [Al Quran ; 4:125]
وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ دِينًا مِّمَّنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لله وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ واتَّبَعَ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَاتَّخَذَ اللّهُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ خَلِيلاً (125)
-> See: And who has a better religion than the one who submitted his face to Allah and while he is doer of good and followed the religion of Ibrahim, the upright, and Allah took Ibrahim as a friend.
And that is exactly what I am doing, I am taking prophet Ibrahim as an excellent example to fight the heads of SHIRK who invaded my religion, being a father, a mother, a brother or a stranger, it makes no difference to me, they all show clear signs of Shirk and Idol worshipping of Mohammed, while all they doing is following the religion of Bukhari, not the religion of Ibrahim
What I found very ironic that these man made books of hadith described the noble prophet Ibrahim as a liar, do you know that?.
Truthsayer wrote:
Surah Al-A'r????????????????????????????¢f, Verse 158:
Say (O Muhammad): O mankind! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah to you all (the messenger of) Him unto whom belongeth the SOVEReignty of the heavens and the earth. There is no God save Him. He quickeneth and He giveth death. So believe in Allah and His messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, who believeth in Allah and in His words and follow him that haply ye may be led aright.
Funny indeed, you are bringing a verse telling me that I should believe in the messenger of Allah? Don?????????????????????¢??t you know that I am already a believer in all the messengers and prophets of Allah? What you do not know that you shot yourself by bringing this verse, let me bring me my translation and the Arabic text:
Say: O people! Indeed I am the messenger of Allah to you all, to Whom belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, there is no god but He; He gives life and causes death therefore believe in Allah and His messenger, the unlettered prophet who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him so that you may be guided. [Al Quran ; 7:158]
قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنِّي رَسُولُ اللّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ جَمِيعًا الَّذِي لَهُ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ لا إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ يُحْيِي وَيُمِيتُ فَآمِنُواْ بِاللّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ النَّبِيِّ الأُمِّيِّ الَّذِي يُؤْمِنُ بِاللّهِ وَكَلِمَاتِهِ وَاتَّبِعُوهُ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ (158)
-> See what the verse says: therefore believe in Allah and His messenger, the unlettered prophet who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him so that you may be guided., SEE BELIEVE IN ALLAH WORDS, not the words of Bukhari and his likes, therefore I am thr true follow of Muhammed, I obeyed him in following the religion of Ibrahim which he himself was commanded to follow, unlike you who is following others in the religion of Bukhari.
Truthsayer wrote:
So please tell me, where, other than the hadith collections that you so passionately oppose, the example of The Prophet (saw) is recorded?
In the Quran, mister smart, all the examples we need to know are found in the Quran, however it seems the idol worshippers like you love to know how Muhammed was pissing, how Muhammed was wiping his bum with stones, how Muhammed was urinating while sitting down, how Muhammed was approaching his wives for sexual foreplay while they have their periods, how Muhammed was sleeping with all his wives one after the other without having a bath in between. You and the likes of you indeed disgust me.
Truthsayer wrote:
So you see, when you reject all hadith, you reject The Prophet, the Qur'an and Allah.
What a load of bull shit, you are not following the religion of Ibrahim, you are following the religion of Bukhari who was a clear cut liar who called his invented sunnah the book of Allah.
Indeed, if I am rejecting such man made and useless books, I will be following the religion of Ibrahim, the upright one, and you should know by know that Ibrahim was not of the polytheists like you and Bukhari.
Truthsayer wrote:
Another glarring inconsistency in your argument is that the hadith was reported by the sahaba. If they had been banned by The Prophet (saw) from doing that, why would they? Or are you like the rafidi sect who hates the sahabah?
I don?????????????????????¢??t hate the sahaba, in fact I really careless about ay of them, I am sure there was many sincere ones among them, however they are dead now, what I have is the reminder which remained to remind me. Your man made books of hadith on the others hand portray many of the sahaba as dumb and ignorant.
Truthsayer wrote:
The Qur'an was also compiled by them,
BS, the Quran was compiled by Allah, see this verse, mister confused:
75:17 Surely on Us (devolves) the collecting of it and the reciting of it. [Al Quran ; 75:17]
75:17 ان علينا جمعه وقرانه
-> See, Surely on Us (devolves) the collecting of it , therefore the sahaba who collected it were only a vessel driven by Allah, i.e. Allah was divinely supervising them while doing so and while making sure that the collection of it is error free, unlike mister Bukhari who in no way can do this with his man made hadith, he tried hard though but ended up proving how dumb and confused he was.
Truthsayer wrote:
and it was passed on in much the same way as many of the hadith. So you're simply unable make any coherent argument about rejecting all hadith but accepting the Qur'an as the preserved word of Allah.
Allah did not say that upon Him will be the collection of your man made Bukhari Springer hadith, please dismiss your stupid argument in the rubbish bin
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Well, he did not do one mistake, nor two, neither three, rather zillions, and not only that, he also contradicted the Quran, defamed Muhammed, defamed many prophets in addition to defaming Allah
Such non sense of crap book has no place but the rubbish bin
Can?????????????????????¢??t you see what how it divided your Ummah?
Truthsayer wrote:
Which authentic hadith from Bukhari contradicts the Qur'an?
Plenty
Truthsayer wrote:
Didn't you know for a hadith to be authentic, it can't contradict the Qur'an?
Yes I know, but it seems your hadith writers did not know that, for example Bukhari is telling us that the prophet was doing the rounds with all his wives one after the other and without having a bath in between, Allah on the other hand tells Muhammed to always clean his cloth and shun uncleanness.
There is also the crap about Tayamum, shortening the prayers, killing the adulterers, and killing the apostates, all contradict the Quran.
Truthsayer wrote:
And they do not defame Muhammad.
Yeh yeh, they only portray him as a sexual maniac freak who enjoy approaching his wives for sex while they had their periods or sleeping with one after the other witout having a bath in between, that?????????????????????¢??s all.
Truthsayer wrote:
What you people do is take things out of context,
That is right, we are taking it out of the context of sex.
Truthsayer wrote:
then apply your moral relativism to it. Just like Ali sina and his likes do.
To be honest pal, I don?????????????????????¢??t give a fuk about Ali Sina, I am only using his site to confront the Muslims like you.
Truthsayer wrote:
And it's disgusting.
As I told you earlier, what is disgusting is your idol worshipping and clear cut shirk
Truthsayer wrote:
A complete read of Bukhari's collection,
Yeh yeh, A complete read of Bukhari's collection means a complete waste of time
Truthsayer wrote:
and the other, gives the impression of Muhammad (saw) as an extremely kind, moral, loving and forgiving person and it testifies to the undeniable truth of his prophethood.
Sure, he was extremely kind, moral, loving and forgiving person when he tortured the killers, cut their hands and legs, nailed their eyes with hot nails, and threw them in a hot pit to die while denying them drinking water, look mister hadith worshipper, I did not allege that, it is your mister Bukhari in his sahih and disgusting allegation about the noble prophet.
Truthsayer wrote:
And no, it is not the hadith that causes division in the ummah. It is the misguided sects such as the wahabi, the rafidi and you, the hadith rejector.
Hmmm, but I follow no sect nor any mazhab nor any man made books as you and your likes do, but as I said, if you insist to consider me a sect follower, then I follow the original sect sent by Allah, the sect of the Quran, you on the other hand are following the sect of Bukhari.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
Ishaq Ibn Isa told me that Abdul Rahman Ibn Zaid knew from his father who knew it from Ataa Ibn Yassar that Abu Hurairah said:
We were sitting down writing what we hear from the prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam, he came to us and said: What is that which you are writing. We said: it is what we hear from you, then he said: Another book with the Book of Allah?, we said: it is what we hear, he said: Write down the book of Allah, uphold the Book of Allah, what! Another book but the book of Allah?. Uphold the Book of Allah, Abu Hurairah said: So we collected what we wrote ALL TOGETHER and burnt it with fire, then we said: O Rasool Allah, can we talk about you?, he said: Yes you can talk about me and there should be no blame on you, and whoever lies about me deliberately, then his seat in hell will be secured. Then we said: Can we talk about the children of Israel?, He said: Yes you can talk about the children of Israel and there should be no blame on you, and whatever you say about them but there is more to wonder about them
The above hadith is clear that THERE SHOULD BE NO BOOK NEXT TO ALLAH BOOK, see how the prophet said it: Write down the book of Allah, uphold the Book of Allah. What! Another book but the book of Allah?. Uphold the Book of Allah
Truthsayer wrote:
Still nothing from the Qur'an, the only thing you accept?
Read 42:21 again
Truthsayer wrote:
It's a weak hadith,
Yeh, the lame apology that is always used by the hadith worshippers when confronted clear cut crap from their own man made books of hadith. Tell me then, if it was that weak hadith, why the confused hadith writers included them in their man made books?
I tell you why, to prove how dumb and stupid they have been
Truthsayer wrote:
and it could just as well mean they shouldn't be mixing his sayings up with the Qur'an.
What you alleged is nothing but wishful thinking because the prophet never said so.
Truthsayer wrote:
What if people found it later, and thought it was a missing verse from the quran? And If all we had were rumors about him, how do you think those would sound now, 1400 years later? Certainly nothing close to the truth. People who actually know what Muhammad has said, either first or second hand, were dissapearing. That is why people started writing it down, even though that had been done long earlier than Bukhari, he mainly just valued their authenticity. It's the same thing that happended with the Qur'an. People who had memorized and heard The Prophet (saw) reciting it were dying, so it was written down and compiled.
Silly arguments like the above are dismissed
AhmedBahgat wrote:
1) you proved your ignorance to the man made books of hadith that you uphold next to the Quran
Truthsayer wrote:
I do not uphold anything next to Qur'an,
Of course you do, if not then tell me what is the punishment of Zina? And the source of such punishment?
Truthsayer wrote:
but somethings are simply not in it! And I'm ignorant because I apparently didn't know about a few superficial errors in the books? That makes no sense
You cannot call the errors in these man made books of hadith superficial errors, they are fundamentally huge errors and contradictions, like killing the adulterers and the apostates.
AhmedBahgat wrote:
2) you are another proof that most of the Muslims are indeed like most of the Jews and the Christians, they all submitted to Satan and corrupted their religion, SATAN?????????????????????¢??????????????????????S MAIN AND ONLY OBJECTIVE
Truthsayer wrote:
That is one of the reasons why ulema from all over the world has made blanket takfir on you and the rest of your sect.
It is also the other way around, I accuse them and you of being clear cut Mushrikoon, and I have proved my case so many times using the Quran and your man made books of hadith, yet, you and them failed to prove that I am a kafir by using the Quran only.
Truthsayer wrote:
Lets have a look at Muhammad's farewell sermon, one heard by hundreds, maybe thousands. This is in pretty much all hadith collections, with many diferent chains of narrations. There might be different versions of part of it, but this is the same in all:
Yeh, do you know that there is another version in sahih Muslim in which the prophet never mentioned his sunnah, all he said that he left with us the book of Allah.
Truthsayer wrote:
"Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things."
So, you see, Satan could not lead all Muslims, except you and your sect, into shirk as you're claiming.
Indeed, what is alleged to be said by the prophet above, have come to mass, Satan has lured so many Muslims into SHIRK, and indeed most of them accepted his invitation
AhmedBahgat wrote:
And I can assure you that if any Muslim in here who dares to go the length with me debating such issue of man made hadith, then I will be the one to hammer and last
Qur'an is the first source for all muslims if we can't find something in Qur'an then we should try to find it in
Hadith and it's important to seek only SAHEEH hadith from the Bukhari&MUslim and other Saheed collections of Hadith. I have found great collections of Hadith at islam trend social network.
Posted:
Thu 10 Feb, 2011 11:49 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: Re: hadith
islamtarik wrote:
Qur'an is the first source for all muslims if we can't find something in Qur'an then we should try to find it in
Hadith and it's important to seek only SAHEEH hadith from the Bukhari&MUslim and other Saheed collections of Hadith. I have found great collections of Hadith at islam trend social network.
Welcome to free islam brother
I believe what you are said means that the Quran is not complete and we need to shirk with it the rubbish books of man made hadith
Qur'an is perfect book, it is the Word Allah s.w.t. and you didn't understand my answer.
I have said if we don't have answer on some questions then we should try to seek in Hadith.
For example Allah s.w.t said We eqimuu salah - you must pray sallah but there is no where in Qur'an
how to pray. In qur'an there is no anykind of description of performing salah.
It doesn't mean that Qur'an is not perfect book, it means what Allah s.w.t. said in Quran that we must obey
to Allah and his Messanger Muhammada s.a.w.s.
And our Messanger s.a.w.s. has teached us how to pray salah and many other things which are recorded in hadith colections like Bukhar & Muslim. And also there is also one of the most popular Hadith from our Messanger where he said that we must strong hold 2 things Qur'an and Sunnah.
First source of Islam is Qur'an, second Source is Hadith- Sunnah
And those two things are like one, and they are light for every muslim on the planet.
Posted:
Fri 11 Feb, 2011 7:17 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 59 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject: Re: hadith
islamtarik wrote:
Qur'an is perfect book, it is the Word Allah s.w.t. and you didn't understand my answer.
Myself or you who dont understand?
islamtarik wrote:
I have said if we don't have answer on some questions then we should try to seek in Hadith.
Same rubbish said by all hadith worshippers and Mushrikoon
islamtarik wrote:
For example Allah s.w.t said We eqimuu salah - you must pray sallah but there is no where in Qur'an
how to pray. In qur'an there is no anykind of description of performing salah.
Funny indeed, so how you reckon the Muslims were praying during the 200 years after the prophet died and your satanic hadith books were not invented yet?
I need a smart answer or I wont waste my time with yet another hadith worshipper who does not know what he is talking about
islamtarik wrote:
It doesn't mean that Qur'an is not perfect book, it means what Allah s.w.t. said in Quran that we must obey
to Allah and his Messanger Muhammada s.a.w.s.
How dare you abbreviate the name Allah to small letter a? well this is what you see from all al-mushrkoon like you
again mister Mushrik, how the Muslims were praying in the 200 years after the prophet died and while your man made satanic books of hadith were not invented yet?
islamtarik wrote:
And our Messanger s.a.w.s. has teached us how to pray salah and many other things which are recorded in hadith colections like Bukhar & Muslim.
But your master Bukhari was born 200 years after the prophet died. So how the Muslims were praying then?
This shows how stupid all Mushrikoon and hadith worshippers are
We inherited the prayer ORALLY, mister Mushrik. We dont need your rubbish books of Bukhari and Muslim to know how we pray
Why dont you show me how we pray from your man made rubbish books of haidth?
islamtarik wrote:
And also there is also one of the most popular Hadith from our Messanger where he said that we must strong hold 2 things Qur'an and Sunnah.
There are three versions of this alleged hadith
1- Quran an Sunnah
2- Quran and Ahl Al-Bayt
3- Quran only
so why you only follow your version (1), and the Mushrik shia follow version (2), and why you ignore vesrion (3)?
islamtarik wrote:
First source of Islam is Qur'an, second Source is Hadith- Sunnah
That is what all al-mushrikoon like you say
Allah never said so to us
islamtarik wrote:
And those two things are like one, and they are light for every muslim on the planet.
No pal, I am not with those Mushrik Muslims and there are millions like me
The Quran describes the like of you really well:
And most of them do not believe in Allah unless they are Mushrikoon (12:106) _________________ http://free-islam.com
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